My Fake Spirituality is something James wrote a while ago. So is Awakenings. More information at his personal website.
Mary Jane was mentioned. More information available here.
0:00
Intro
1:17
Business
3:05
Mary Jane's death
James' abscess
Infections in the First World
Rita's cancer
Acceptance of death
Things you want to do before you die
Lots of things happening
"Take it one day at a time"
It takes time to grieve
13:13
Seeing friends again
Time passes and you don't keep in touch with people as much
Getting in touch with people you have lost touch with
Out of contact, people stop being who they used to be and you don't really know them any more
Focusing
Investing in specific people
"The shepherd going back for the one lost lamb"
When people need you, they become top priority for a time
Transition from one burden to another when you stop caring for one person (e.g. Mary Jane's death)
"Beautiful thing to be able to suffer for a person"
25:14
"Through grieving you keep memory alive"
Dying person "like a library burning down"
Mary Jane's interesting stories
LSD freeways
30:49
"Eventually everything will be memories"
James' bad memory
Memoirs
Difficulty in recalling, processing the past
Kierkegaard's journal
Generating, accumulating words
Time consuming to look through and process
"A trash can of having too much"
37:27
They Might Be Giants story
"We have like, a million songs"
The curse of having so many songs you can't release a good one
Writing a million words
40:50
How can you remember your own material; how it was made?
Old stuff loses its "life"
Life of Pi, eating poop
"Your mouth knows that there's nothing there"
Hard to sing old songs
James' college songs about working through "spiritual, romantic weirdness"
45:28
James: Prospect of re-reading My Fake Spirituality daunting, interesting, but "don't want to go there"
The chewed-over parts of life
Final cause, purpose, defeated by efficient cause
47:40
Future self doesn't remember past self's writing background
James: Defer to past self in editing
Author changes over time
Memories change
"Not the same person as a few days ago."
"What do I know about suffering now that I feel relatively good?"
If you can access your own suffering, you can empathize, see suffering people
How to be poor in spirit, but have resources to help?
51:52
Alain de Boutton (sp?) on charity
Charity not just finance portion
"Charity is about understanding suffering in all forms, compassion."
Hard to have empathy
Charity doesn't require you to have the exact same suffering
At the root, we are the same: "Deeper reality, basic thing, 'I am someone who suffers', fellow-person with everyone. 'I am a desperate person.'"
Kinship the base
57:00
American Pickers freestyling digression
59:09
Companionship vs. kinship
Companionship, direct presence
Kinship, logical connection, image
Shame
Christopher Hitchens bashing Mother Teresa
Mother Teresa: "It's cool to be poor"
Hitchens: "No, that's a horrible thing to say"
Devaluing other people's lives and experiences
1:02:52
Microfinance
More dignity
But then it's a burden on the person who takes it on
Always a side effect
Even if you use different options, a mixture of microfinance and other things, there will be side effects, collateral damage
"Those who receive seem lesser, inferior"
Relating to people as real people
Objectification of people being helped
Helping people can be more about power than love
1:07:23
We think God is all about bringing about world without suffering
What if atheists bring about a world without suffering, can they dispense with God?
What about spiritual gifts?
What if atheists used "genetic engineering" to make it happen?
What if atheists could engineer a life that worked out?
God is always elusive
Apophatic vs. kataphatic theology
"It's all true, it's all there, but I don't know it"
Continentals vs. analytics
Continentals, postmoderns destroy sense of knowledge
Analytics more kataphatic
How can you have the answers you need, without the arrogance of having too many answers?
Need a connection with mystery, but it can't itself become a formula
"Can't even explain answer in words, but the real deal is out there."
1:13:16
People crucifying themselves in the Phillipines
Does this really get the point, does it really produce empathy with Jesus?
Focusing on actual pain, missing what pain was for.
"Good works, effort in spiritual growth build a structure, at a certain point they gel, the Holy Spirit enters you and you live the real life, but then that wasn't it either and you have to fall and rebuild"
Fractal staircase
Temporary wholeness lets you work, get a vision for where you will eventually go
Compassion has to be a whole lifestyle
"If you're living your life right, you should be suffering like Jesus, going to your execution"
1:19:05
Summary
Business
Going to San Jose
Eddie the Blade
Mueller College
Here are show contents broken up into timed segments. Links are to salad edition of this episode.
0:00 Intro 0:47 James Going to "church for young people" Church hold onto people with people Rita's death Trip business Rita's passing: Reaction of people at church James' lack of reaction 5:55 Richard Job change Interview - academic-like instead of like in industry, where correctness doesn't matter as much Corporate scale, easy to dehumanize coworkers, customers Want to know customer, coworker, transition to smaller company Interview for an "internal position", no contact with customer Working on self, versus connecting with outsiders 12:57 Richard's ability to comfort people Problems made up in their heads "Easier to help other people who overthink because you don't see their problems as deep as they do" "Maybe if we all help each other's problems, maybe everything would work out." "Isn't that just what society is?" Sometimes seeing super obvious things is beautiful Confucius - "Really simple, really obvious" If you slow down, realize there's way more there The saying of "But everyone's like that" "President Clinton lied." "But every president does that!" "Dismissive phrase to move conversation along, but isn't it interesting that every president lies?" Amazing views, even in familiar city Walking on Saturdays Sun-Tzu's Art of War, source of axioms Society, people helping people 22:02 East of Eden Large family story, like Brothers Karamazov Demons/The Possessed, by Dostoyevsky Multigenerational Funny, sad, sad because it's funny to the narrator East of Eden Visiting Salinas In the middle of a bunch of books 29:16 Speechlessness The Book of Strange New Things Having your reality where you are, can't track people at a distance "All he can do is send words" With email you can't communicate silent presence Speechlessness Silent restaurant business idea "Not saying things is the right thing to do" "If you say what you're feeling/thinking, it's no longer true" Pauses become a word Non-verbal communication "The word conceals because it simplifies, reduces" Label distracts from the reality Online profiles: 10 words is you? 42:18 Buber reading (Beginning of first chapter of Between Man and Man by Martin Buber) The dream of the double cry (Interrupted call) Resumption Summary (in case of copyright issues) 53:23 Hawai'i book by Sarah Vowell Missionaries, colonialism Biography of David Livingstone "Coercion, attraction" Intellectual colonialism/imperialism coercive/seductive Attractive evangelism -- how do you live that out? Evangelistic contact precedes commercial/political contact sometimes Pandora's box Purity of message delivery versus need to communicate the message 1:00:07 Hawai'i book 2 Missionaries stopped being paid, had to turn to commerce Descendants of missionaries end up being the worldly elite Puritans in America, similar generational change "When we're young and idealistic, we make declarations, we care, but as we get older we lose that" Weeds in field, cares of the world Students, children are going to go their own way -- but how do you keep it so that the message will be transmitted faithfully? Drift in ante-Nicenes Desert Fathers went off to be monks in order to preserve martyr experience But they could have kept being martyrs, being missionaries to Persia, India, etc That which needs to be passed on: may not even be a set of beliefs 1:08:43 Hard to pass on ideas through generations, conditions change "Persecution is the condition, let's crack down on ourselves in the desert." Martyrdoms not the point of Christianity, metaphorical ones matter too, for that matter Martyrdom a big part of Christianity: at least you must be willing to die Full trust in God involves a willingness to be a martyr Acts 20:22 "If you ever have the chance to be martyred, take it." 1:16:38 Other interpretations of Paul going to Jerusalem: a free ride; an audience with the emperor Emperor a juicy target, power perspective (converting empire by converting emperor) But also compassion on someone exposed to Satanic influences 1:21:00 Power Pray for president, protect him from Satan Ultimately all the people in power serving... Satan? Or is Satan serving "lifeless power" Buber on Napoleon: had no lust for power, was just logical, which gave him power No one realized that power is empty, nothing "Total devotion to causality equals you have no freedom" "Buber: I've been somewhere other than causality" "We just live 'No' to causality" Escape that by relating "Would rather not put that into words, but somehow words help" Problems happen when we're too successful without loving 1:26:19 Churches of Christ Presbyterianism minus the Calvinism Legalistic, okay with that People figure out there's a lot of power in the gospel, if you live it out (discipleship) Happened in Churches of Christ (Boston movement) Zealous, practiced confession, turned hierarchical "Talk about love, clap each other on the back, but what was there if the religious thing wasn't there, would we still love each other?" Deep down, didn't love each other Hard to be a leader, you will become a leader 1:30:49 Something good turns into something Satanic "Getting the sense that people get a little too excited about power of discipleship" "Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees." A message for disciples Disciples Pharisaical after Jesus' ascension? Pharisees, people into power and wealth, especially in religious forms, and didn't love "'Sketchiness?' 'Unreliability.'" James' explanation of "sketchiness" Ending "'Judge things by love' to cut through sketchiness." "Realistic, mature love, is how you discern things." 1:37:52 Business Audio 1:39:02 Outro 1:40:20 Trailer
Here are show contents broken up into timed segments. Links are to salad edition of this episode.
0:00 Intro 0:40 Richard update Work Intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivation In college "paycheck vs. passion" quarterlife crisis Being tired 7:30 Tunnel out of Monte Cristo Wearing shoes Pet peeves with shoes "Something that used to be good for you isn't anymore and you need to get away from it" Umbilical cord 11:20 Online adventures Google+ What the Internet used to be like Groups for atheism, Christian apologetics "To what extent is ridicule essential for atheism?" Feeling of plausibility shapes what is believed Atheist culture of contrarianness 17:40 Philosophy club Unquestioned assumptions Constitutional assumptions "You don't solve problems with power" "You don't bring a gun to the philosophy discussion and win" Assumption that "might doesn't make right" "You can question anything." Act of doing philosophy puts you in a mode where you're trying to establish an argument. Saying it makes it not true "Show, don't tell." "Live it, don't declare it." 22:54 Speechlessness in action Online group: is it worth it Agnosticism "Know all the limits to my knowledge, make me realize how little I know" Poisonous spirits: "a certain kind of certainty" "physiologically" includes spiritual states False certainty, can't trust it Making plans "Not sure they make sense" "Something will occur to me to probe again" Problem of Evil, development themes promising 30:52 Philosophy club, composition Regulars (grad students, club president) Undergrads (extra credit, genuine curiosity) Secular humanist/militant atheist vein Skews atheistic, but there was a young woman who was a Christian there Christians okay with getting opinion from other people, philosophy "is about having your own opinion" Christians think they have enough answers to go off of, move on to do other things Philosophy club costs a certain amount of time per week, campus fellowship could cost that time Philosophy happens in Christian circles as apologetics spread in church circles "Christians don't reach out to world because whatever craving they have for belonging and friendship taken by the church" 37:54 Comparison of secular with Christian philosophy Ex: discussion of autonomy "No discussion of 'maybe autonomy isn't a good thing'" Sense that a lot of secular philosophy is, deep down, covert anti-Christian apologetics Ex: talk about "transgender stuff" Dehumanization at root of identity politics Buber's "Love your neighbor as one like yourself" "Seeing someone else as one like yourself makes all kinds of things irrelevant." "Who cares if they're faking it?" "Why do we have to come up with an explanation of what's actually right or wrong, why not take agnostic position?" "No, we need this in order to go after the institutions" Gap between need to have visible power and the need to work in spiritual world Secular world works in local world, has to build up tension to work in specificities, "overwroughtness" (overbuiltness) Everything matters and nobody sees anything the same way, so the whole doesn't say anything in a unified way You've gotta make it happen because there is no God, no Holy Spirit, have to solve things through a mechanical and industrial, Roman, "roads built out of thoughts", instead of organic, through healing" "All we are are children" Otherwise you have the insecurity of having to be the adult. The entire project (transgender thing) wouldn't be as big a deal to a Christian, would take a different approach The assumptions runs through the whole of secular philosophy and subtly reinforces the implausibility of belief in God. Getting things off one's chest Value in revisiting the past Relistening to podcast 51:57 Wrapping up episode, business Adding SF trip Annual trips to Northern California Greyhound 1:02:09 Outro
Here are the scans of the handwritten notes we took while trying to determine the name of the podcast. You might want to have them open while you listen, as they may in some ways be of help in understanding what we are talking about: Page 1 Page 2
Here are show contents broken up into timed segments. Links are to "salad" edition of this episode
0:00
Intro
01:20
Plan of attack
Extrapolate from what we already talked about
Narratives
Church history
State of the church
Social justice
Modern socioeconomic conditions
Compassion/sympathy/empathy
(Sense of deja vu
Recovering a lost memory)
Self-development, exploration
Life-navigation
"Piloting"
Patterns, recurring themes
Nautical imagery
06:30
Danger of names, reductionism
Descriptive rather than normative
Name fits existing episodes
xkcd is a madeup screen name
Vague, broad name
Trying different names for each series?
Names can change over time
ex. This American Life used to be "Your Radio Playhouse"
Directories of podcasts?
Will listeners have a problem with name changes?
10:00
"The hosting question"
Internet Archive
Uploader name?
"Richard Yeh and James Banks"
12:30
Back to name
"Pilot Program"
"Is this real?"
(refer to written notes)
15:04
I, you, the world at large
Quasi-solipsism
I, you, them
The cloud
Yous become them as in electron cloud
How to make a name out of this diagram?
Dimension of time
"Twinkie/corndog"
Culture, development of church/non-church culture over time
22:20
How to make a name out of this metaphor
Jokes:
Bad startup names
Pilot Bay
Pilot Ship
"Don't open up podcast name to derision."
Clouds:
The Cloud of Unknowing
The Atomic Self
Quasi-solipsism
25:00
Top-down model of a house
Mental possessions inside
Yous at the window
The horizon of them
Inhabit a house
Buber: the you can sit right on the threshold (would even mess
with the way the house works). Often, all you have is a "possession"
in the form of a you, the real you outside, nobody on the threshold.
Photons
You is inside or not
Making decisions is like photon slit experiment
Shedding Light
Fiat Lux
31:54
What's the destination for the pictures?
Goal? Destination?
What about the them?
People showing a slice of who they are.
Cashier sees that "customer" slice
A bunch of "customer" slices becomes "The Customer"
"The Them is a product of urban life."
"Contemporary society intensifies this."
De facto segregation
Home tribe; everybody else you just see the little slices
Class/educational segregation -- "Tribalism"
Opportunity to connect with the Them in cities, but there's fear
which disconnects in cities.
Fear trumping love
Intensifies negative sense of Them
Too afraid to find out what people are like
42:30
More experience with people leads to more manageable cloud, or
less-cloudy conception of Them
David Wong, Monkeysphere
Taking a break
Testing audio
Bragging about Tascam
1 dimensional Them, 2 dimensional You
"You have to have some Thems, so how do you approach them better?"
"Loving the them as them"
"Loving as in terms of patience, kindness... living in harmony,
but also changing stuff, dealing with evil."
48:48
Back from break
Better way to relate with them
Live in harmony with them
Dealing with system/culture
Social justice warriors fight the system
Fighting the Them... but the Them are just Yous
Mercy/compassion vs. law/justice
"Who do you really know? How do you treat them? Seek out people
who are different to really know and love."
"Attack conservatives and patriarchal males as Thems, rather than
seeing them as Yous."
"People who are persecuted are radicalized, become militant."
57:53
Trust and love
1:02:30
Back to oppressed people group
"Oppressed group tends to get into tribalism"
"In-group constituted around outrage, have to maintain outrage."
"Can you be feminist, Marxist, libertarian, conservative, without
outrage?"
Christianity has stumbling blocks -- only perfectly itself
Doesn't give you what you would want as a liberal, conservative
Ultimately, only have allegiance to it
Have to want it for what it wants you to want it for
1:04:53
What if somebody else saves the world, without Christianity?
There's something more than coming up with a society which is
compassionate and just
(Could there be a loving world without the Holy Spirit? Maybe
just an equal and prosperous one.)
Star Trek
1:07:35
A name:
Them. End goal.
Relate with Them as Them.
Loving the Them.
Them live.
The You and the Them.
The Them: an It is a Them that is You-ish?
"The ocean is a drop and the drop is the ocean."
Loving the Cloud.
"Them, plus confusion, uncertainty."
"Have to love the cloud before you can get out of it."
1:13:00
What would it be like to change the size of the I?
Would you seem bigger or smaller, or would everything
else change in proportion?
As you become smaller, does the Them become scarier?
Humility is not "the answer"
Can you make the Yous bigger in and of themselves?
1:16:15
Podcast roles
(Book from SJSU library about radio)
Is "Loving the Cloud" used?
Alternative names?
~1:25:00
Outro
Here are show contents broken up into timed segments. Links are to "salad" edition of this episode
0:00 Intro 1:13 Getting away from home Agenda "Media talk" Recording test Episode 2 "Gets good an hour in" 3:52 Eliduc Lais of Marie de France in general "Courtly, wise, worthy, brave, beautiful" Love leads to adultery Quasi-solipsism "This is everyone's life" (Somewhat inexact) Plot summary 9:51 Eliduc 2 James: "Got the whole book for that story" Becoming celibate out of romantic love appealed Richard: "Courtly love: romanticized adultery" Have to follow true love wherever it takes you Love for people vs. romantic love Do what's loving because you care about them rather than own interests or what you deserve. Example of love shown could help people could change their lives for love Life-changing love: romantic love vs. love-as-care Random, brutal, chaotic, violating love vs. healing love. 14:36 Eliduc 3 Love stories neither comedic nor tragic Irony of celibacy Stories can develop into comedy, tragedy, horror, (etc.) Eliduc turned into horror Persona, by Bergman Old wife becoming passive/passive aggressive, felt powerless, became a ghost, haunting the other characters Not necessarily supernatural, just hanging around in some sense. Werewolf story Horror movie moral tropes Real psychological horror vs. horror movies Horror movies: bloodbath, slasher films About judging people Fear not necessarily the same as horror Ghost vs. Lion, Freud Ghost is uncanny, lion "kicks in adrenaline" 22:40 Images Stirner, spooks, Geist Ideas are real Seeing archetypes play out in real life, bigger than the person being dealt with Ghost in the back of your head, deep in consciousness Do ghosts exist as physical(/ish) manifestation of a some supernatural being? Reality as a tree, we're into leaves, we're ants, reality goes way down, made out of wood and sap, goes down into the earth Ghosts as elemental psychological force scarier than serial killers 26:08 H. P. Lovecraft Tries to depict the undepictable, reduces cosmic horror Speechlessness connected to horror. Attractiveness/aversiveness of horror/awe Algernon Blackwood "The Willows" Lovecraft names his gods, Blackwood doesn't Vague, mundane description produces less of an image, less of a visual concept Beauty, of landscape and beings, awe Fear, cosmic horror too 32:27 Going Clear, The Master, L. Ron Hubbard, Scientology 1950s embraced Science, Progress Hubbard captures psychological reality in "psychological folk art" N-Grams like powerful, archetypal memories stored in the body Purge them to become enlightened Purging self of desires "Coming to terms with something in your past" basis of mainstream therapy "Purging of N-Grams/memory could lead to physical healing" Placebo effect Like a trainer 40:36 Exercise Vigorous exercise unnatural 1 hr of exercise, the rest of the day sitting Modern day manual labor unnatural Wears people out Farm work, construction wear people out young Gym could be more natural than that 44:09 Distribution of wealth What to do? White-collar worker $50k/yr income Cut back to $20 or $30,000 a year Leftover to give to charity Thinking small and short term Can focus spending for greater long-term multiplicative effect Microfinance "Every trend is messed up and weird" Long term more in why is it that the other white-collar workers aren't engaged? Decent amount upper-middle A lot of money in >10% of income "The rich are a different breed." vs. moderately susceptible to influence, susceptible to popular culture The filter on culture "You can say anything you want in a movie and you won't really change their attitudes" Friendships -- are rich people totally cut off socially from the culture at large? The work of you as a cultural worker, not just white-collar income earner. Everyone (almost) has friends, can work on that level. 53:03 Filters "Starving Children in Africa" the phrase Can bandy it about, but ignore actual meaning of it "I" to "you" to "them" to "doesn't even exist category" Not natural to take people as human So, we have to be unnatural World's major religions want us to have unnatural/supernatural ability to love "Goal we can aspire to" Beginning to begin Try to get yourself to desire even if you can't desire Universal love an emotional rather than rational idea 58:32 "Universal love said the cactus person" by Scott Alexander Sidebar: Neoreactionary movement "Get out of the car" "What button do I push?" Stuck in paradigm of reason/rationality Can't really achieve ideal, but you have to feel it 1:05:33 We don't trust emotions, presupposes that the universe is not loving But if you presuppose the universe is loving, then emotions are more trustworthy They Might Be Giants' song, "No Answer" David Foster Wallace "This is Water" "How's the water today?" Young fish don't understand "What's it like to be alive?" It depends, like a Buber idea Feeling of being in control, being found in your own power Feeling of being lost, lost in love, found in love?, contrast between "found in power" (Buber's "I-it"?) vs. "lost in love" (Buber's "I-Thou"?) You were alive thousands of days, only died one of them, so many things went right in your life 1:10:00 Trust Cloud-like trustings of openness, security trust Openness to learning, sense of things working out "Most people have those trustings" Makes more sense if the universe is loving Impersonal "How do we get personality out of the impersonal?" Loving "Why don't things work out the way that we want them to, would consider loving?" 1:12:49 Humans have the same psychology due to human nature Common starting point, in that way the world is one Gives us empathy Pragmatic "You have your story about neurons, I have my story about God" but look at these people! How do you change human nature? Eventually we're going to have to do some genetic engineering to change human nature to make life on earth work Amputating part of someone's brain Messing up connection to supernatural part of person? Engineering away capacity to feel anger, e.g. 1:17:42 Pharmaceuticals already kind of do this Idealism vs. Materialism George Berkeley ripoff All is consciousness, "physical reality" virtual reality Real reality has no essential connection to physical reality Not sure if that's true though Don't worry too much, God will achieve his purposes James: "I take bipolar drugs affecting how I experience the world" Slippery slope, at some point have to put foot down 1:20:35 "It's getting late; any last topics?" Exercise craving a sense of stress, kills stress, gets rid of stress Engage impulses that kick in when you run from something Releases neurochemicals Little things to change moods Moods effect how we approach the world Japanese princess game [ed.: Long Live the Queen] Affecting moods affects the options of what you can do or say Upstream the mood, downstream all kinds of other things Engage in disciplines to shape how you approach the world Exercise, lifestyle choice Ex: accepting minor tokens of poverty Ex: Mass transit in San Diego Ex: CD alarm clock that glitches out Ex: Prayer Irrational, but that's great Tuned to other people Petitionary prayer Sidebar: My Fake Spirituality Reasons to seek God: grace, reality, devotion, you love people 1:29:43 Wrapping up / Business Evangelion next time Absolute Terror Field Live stream Recording at San Diego State Notes Signoff?
Here are show contents broken up into timed segments. Links are to "salad" edition of this episode
0:00 Intro 1:10 Hunger Philosophy Club fiasco "Bullying" Resource depletion, thinking while hungry Siddhartha "Think, fast, wait" Reading while hungry One-Dimensional Man Food coma Fillingness of Chipotle burritos vs. initial hunger level "Inadvertent advertising startup" Speech-to-text 8:37 Hunger, part 2 Hard to focus in class Richard's intermittent fasting in college Losing weight Consciously aware, empathetic to hungry person's need "In the short term it makes me more focused on my own hunger" Skill to learn: physically hungry and connect with external world Training at altitude Athleticism Cost of hunger on skills, even if you don't feel hungry Lower capacity, clarity of mind Lose some Mhz/Ghz, gain focus Lower volume of thought output, maybe think better "Go back and forth between periods of fasting and not-fasting" Involuntary fasting "Empathy for people through fasting?" "Not my motive, but a good idea, intersectionality of resource depletion and compassion" 16:52 Consecrating things Protestants don't understand it Observance of Lent Reasons for Lent/asceticism See if you can live without something - self mastery Focus thoughts on God - pious, direct relationship with God Compassion on people who are hungry - relationship with other people - not emphasized as much Empathy in Lent toward Jesus, in his sacrifice The man who is God Bridge between pious connection and connection to human beings 22:48 Jesus walled-off from human beings, mythical Jesus' Really Long Day Kinship with Garden of Gethsemane, crucifixion Assuming mythicalness of characters makes them mythical 28:10 Jesus came in the flesh Living Jesus' life Disciples look forward to dying as Jesus did "Look at Jesus as not unattainable" We only sin in how we don't choose to not sin, same starting place as Jesus The 5 Whys The root sin might just be not turning yourself over to God to clean you up, lack of trust in God 34:14 East of Eden Story of Cain and Abel Story of brother who kills brother Cain kills Abel out of jealousy and anger Fears that God loved Abel more than him Fearing that you're not truly loved for who you are Envy Anger arising from rejection Cain had the opportunity to take mastery over sin but may not have understood exactly how You want the shameful thing to not exist, get rid of reminders Have to own the past "So few easy answers" Easy answers: Rag on yourself all the time "Kill your brother" Pretend like nothing happened Completely forget Apologizing or making light, in the right form, but without the right spirit Takes maturity to not do that, Cain didn't have that Cain didn't have to kill Abel Do well Don't have to be ashamed of the past because you've learned what you needed to Praising Cain and Abel story Rich myth 45:11 Cain and Abel in East of Eden Translation of timshel "Thou mayest" "Do thou" vs. "Thou shalt" vs. "Thou mayest" Choice vs. trusting identity If you believe "thou shalt", "thou may" and you will fullfil "do thou" Buber's translation of "Love your neighbor as one like yourself" Steinbeck could have mistranslated Trilemmas 50:48 "Do thou" "Kantian" deontological duties "Thou mayest" existential "Thou shalt" deterministic, "final cause" Philosophical shadings of language in the Bible Philosophical content The Book of John, epistemology "God is love" Levinas, Buber, Heidegger intersubjectivity subject-object relations vs. intersubjective "being present in totality to each other" Two subjects relating to each other, not objectifying each other Heidegger about ontology, being Deep down being isn't personal deep down (???) Buber, reality is personal, deep down (???) Levinas, ethics comes before ontology Intersubjectivity prior to ontology? Dharmic: "Universe made out of love, compassion. So, love should precede all being." James: Buber in between Heidegger and Levinas, just unify being and love, from 1 John Not "ethics is God" Not abstract force How Can We Love? and Awakenings follow John 1:00:29 James: Berkeley influence Outside the universe, spiritual beings including us, outside of that: question, personal or impersonal? "Is reality fundamentally loving, or not?" Problem of evil speaks against reality being loving Could be not just in terms of justice/injustice What does fact of suffering do to human capacity to believe the universe is loving? Jewish friend goes to Poland, has ability to make sense of things in general compromised 1:06:51 "Not often given the opportunity to judge people" [misspoke?] "When's our next judgment of God session?" Religion about day-to-day experiences, during and after life Personal Emotions from great pain, suffering are personal Great pain could disrupt faith Richard: was blithe toward Problem of Evil How much evil does it take to invalidate existence of omnibenevolent deity? Arguments against religion can be emotional, because religion needs to be emotional 1:10:28 "People of faith connected to a reality beyond this physical world" Emotions, intuitions, conscious states are connected to spiritual world Conservative atheists, egoists Libertarians The vibe of conservative atheism: George Will Max Stirner Nietzsche - conservative or not? Liberal atheists, humanists "If you have a heart and you don't believe in God, you will feel emotion about here-and-now suffering" Generous-hearted, liberal Christians can be blithe because of the "greater reality", afterlife, Day of Judgment Caring atheists: "You don't have faith, you just don't care" "Jesus wept" Things not worth getting afraid, maybe not angry, but worth having compassion, weeping, doing something 1:16:29 Dharma, Karma, real force in the universe of "ethics preceding ontology", moral force aware of good and bad acts, which will sort things out Universe is not immoral in most religions, ethical logic, calculus Human beings have traction on things, can do things that can bring about salvation Heresy? Faith is a work. "You should hear and you should obey" How could you ever know what transcendent reality is? Anxiety of being alone Is it God or is it Zeus? "Zeus engineered my divine sign" May not matter, as long as Zeus is powerful, loving enough But what if there's a bigger god/alien than Zeus who's a bad god Titans Fates rule in the end If reality is ultimately impersonal, you'd better be selfish How can you create a trusting, trustworthy society without faith that you will "end in love"? Two worlds: Worldly Siddhartha as Max Stirner's "Man of the world" Hovering anxiety pushes you egoistic Levinasian atheism, stringent moral demand, but, strain of suspicion, as in Stirner Union of suspicion, everybody is to be suspected Everybody is suspicious of everyone, tries to take advantage of everyone Suspicion ruins relationships, as in Othello, betraying out of suspicion Pharisees' "men of this world" suspicion Connection with a reality that's more intense, real, than fear, anxiety, suspicion Fear of losing touch with reality "What is the nature of truth/reality? What filter to use?" 1:29:49 Business Suggestions for next time? "If there's something in your brain, it will come out" Bad and good Mascot: cloud-shaped ghost Scheduling Outro Trailer
Here are show contents broken up into timed segments. Links are to "salad" edition of this episode
0:00 Intro 2:05 Agenda Career changing James: Caregiver job, bedbugs, book, applied to "major retailer", new intellectual project Parents support, "cool with intellectual stuff" Desire to connect with people, have a relevant message, work on day job good for that How can you work a day job and still have something left over to give? Didn't want to break flow of work Richard: job about income, material concerns now or later, time and effort, able to devote to writing if you don't work Manuscript 11:43 Sometime in the 21st Century Feeling a strong negative feeling Not about bedbugs A strange weariness Dispel a mood Mood motivates words to come out Words that can be put into intentional story But in this, left unintentional Met someone at open mic, put her in as character A novel, but with noise Taken over different days "ebb and flow of me" Richard: interruption in the middle of the day, how would that affect? James: Not a lot of cases of that. Cases of being intentional. Intentionality jarring. Out walking, write one little vignette, then another, these not in the same flow as the main stuff "The thing that's more intentional messes up the art more. But art's intentionality, I tend to think." "Or is art just to express yourself in the moment?" R: "Your project is against intentionality?" J: "It is an aim to be anti-intentional, but it is intentional." Phone conversation, unedited, and unself-conscious, then maybe you've escaped art "Anything I write will be artistic" Having some idea of a story, for more intentional parts Garrison Keillor, Prairie Home Companion, News from Lake Wobegone Didn't read it until finished "Looking forward to discovering what's in it." "It becomes outside myself." 31:07 Art Richard's writing Journaling, record-keeping Creating snapshot of mental state Looking back later "nostalgia machine" This is art as intentionally unintentional James: "Art is foundness." Choosing an object to put us in the found place of appraisal and consumption Overly intentional, outside art for its own sake, get propaganda or advertising Propaganda of "we want you to consume art" The vibe and culture of consuming art "Kick back for 2 hours in front of the TV, read this novel in a week." The cultural project perpetuates the lifestyle of wanting peace, kicking back Even disturbing art keeps you in foundness "Something fitting about" what you see, even disturbing things Podcast discourse mirrors writing style of both James and Richard 38:12 Archaeology of old notebooks Typing up old notebooks Prayer journal Seeing some of the same stuff happen, same problems Digression, loop trail "Departing from one point, returning only a little bit further along the path." History, memory, going back and seeing that there's different time periods "This too shall pass." 43:07 History student friend Zakhor, Jewish historiography The Bible is historical, about the nation and what happens in it, about God's dealings with people in history But then historiography stops in later times Not making history is an option you could do as a people for hundreds of years People in different times having different assumptions and making it work 46:07 Richard's take on history Personal archaeology A lot of cyclical themes Plans remade weeks later The idea of "this time it's different" No bubble in the market this time James: Repentance and return Parallel with remembrance Repentance is a practice Remembrance is a purposeful action Remembering well helps ground in identity Remembering the law leads to repentance There's a momentum, you come from somewhere which causes you to go toward somewhere As soon as you forget your purpose, you're in a place designed to lead you astray 52:32 Sheep Sheep get really distracted Captivated by stuff and wander Universal, near-universal nature of humans "In the moment we thought we really wanted to solve problem, but weren't really focused, dedicated to tracking problems" Shepherds, perhaps, have sustained attention on something Border collies genetically disposed to herd If they don't herd, "they know they're not living their purpose" Richard: no shepherds, really Famous "greats" had a lot of focus, beyond typical social norms Being able to sustain focus, continue along the path of intentionality Note of caution on focus: different ways to be focused, could produce bad as well as good shepherd Sociopaths focused on their ambition John 10. The bad shepherds don't come in through the gate. "I take it to mean they don't go by the way of Jesus, not becoming like Jesus." They come to steal kill and destroy. Also says there are hired hands. Need to be trustworthy to enact role of good shepherd, else you're a bad shepherd "I need to change, this is the direction I have to go." When young, not as urgent to become a good leader But most people become parents and have to be good leader Leading your friends 1:03:27 I-thou trusting Close enough involvement with the same person over time, together, don't know where necessarily, but going somewhere together. Being on the same path A leading, a progression "You and I bounce off each other in such a way that we create this new thing, the individual elements of each of us interacting with each other in a new way, emergent, a mutual path, a form of leadership." Drawn along with someone on a path you don't trust Breaking paths "Any social structure posits a horizon" 1:10:25 Talking with friends about inner state, asynchronous Similar inner states not really shared If you share an external experience "objective presence" type thing Open mic night, movie Often these experiences fade into the background But sometimes... (Story about fake blood spewing open mic performer) Those experiences simplistic, mundane The internal states, those places hard to talk about, intense, the real world Ironically, hard to share Difference between loving the person right in front of you and loving the cloud. Connecting to kin, connecting to someone who was there for the communicable event. 1:15:16 Friendship "What is your definition of a friend?" "Friend", loose term Enjoy company, trust enough to hang out with Impulse to connect Loyalty Lovers (non-romantic) Well-being of other person over the relationship, a limit to loyalty Lover and friend often the same Lover is working toward bringing about complete trust and trustworthiness, a final harmony that is our final home, for everyone, make a place for everyone in that Donating to charity communicates "Someone in America cares about you" Give people hope and an acquaintance with love Love is appreciation, you want the other to be who they are fully, in themselves Lover has to cut off the friendship Friend has to have ongoing relationship (maybe "punctuated equilibrium", though) Friendship is an intention toward each other, or openness Friendship should be able to weather separation "Lover" vs. "true friend" Terminology: true friend is a friend who is a lover, but a lover could be a professional thing Colleagues, around them but you don't really connect Rich, but not really friendship "Love to allow people to reach full self, potential, ability to be what they ultimately want" "To be a better friend, to cease to be a friend" "If you truly love her, let her go." but don't think of that in the context of friendship Friendship less intense, loose "The Best Friend" A person you really bond with, a cognitive muscle that exists toward that person, unless they're also best friends. Hard to find a best friend. Tends to bring in intensity. David and Jonathan, may be a good example of that kind of "best friendship" Can go a long time without a best friend 1:29:46 SDSU security vehicle? Good to leave pathways to come back to Cliffhangers Richard found a new job Hard to capture what that was really like "Good to live a lot in a short period of time" Jobs: it's about what you spend the bulk of your day doing Societal intervention to make you be somewhere you don't totally want to be Is this something that leads you in a good way? Richard: James and Richard both in a similar place, content with where they are 1:34:02 Business Website New season 10 months Gestation 1:39:34 outro/trailer The Spoken Canvas
Here are show contents broken up into timed segments. Links are to "salad" edition of this episode
0:00 Intro 1:42 Nap Gaining sharpness and energy, in exchange get slowness and distance from outside self Short naps better Sometimes that works Consciousness Sleep -- lapses in consciousness When sleep and wake up, new person Exercise 5:32 Victorian era Wives and Daughters by Elizabeth Gaskell Victorians into promise-keeping, doing duty We notice change in sexual mores, but not in promise-keeping mores Keeping a promise even if it makes something hard for somebody else Vox article (Sarah Chrisman (sp)) Living Victorian lifestyle House, clothing, furniture, etc. Re-enactors like the ethos / aesthetics of being Victorians made things themselves Recap of some of Wives and Daughters Even "lazy characters" work all the time 15:32 Rituals What would you learn from living lifestyle of Victorians? Going through the same motions of riding a pennyfarthing, making clothes would convey some of the spirit of the Victorians to the re-enactors Seeing how hard it is to do physical tasks Physical rhythms Rituals Communion (Skunks) Ritual helps teach empathy for other ritual-doers Process of connecting with ritual: Bewilderment Duty Resonance Maybe then consciously bring to mind connection with ritual-doers through time James' church's communion ritual (Prohibition, church history) "You have to get in the saddle, ride the horse" A spiritual discipline, week in and out Church is both a discipline and where the content matters A lot of church is just, being in a group of people, not, what was the sermon about? Small, unintentional rituals "Dividing over the color of the carpet" 31:58 Worship "We should have organs" "We shouldn't have musical instruments -- except the piano for tempo and pitch." A capella "... plus clapping ... and beatboxing." What do specific aesthetic qualities mean? A capella music, simple and dry Not as in your face emotionally Organs can have powerful bass "Expensive way to make a draft, but a cheap way to get people to have an experience of God." The organ says something about God, a specific something Communion: "A cheap way to get people hors d'ouevres, expensive way to forgive sins." Communion: cannibalism? Bread can be a daily walk, not just about sacrifice Contemporary vs. traditional 45:42 Dryness Stripped-down Not vivid and obvious Contention about being "too spiritual" "Authenticity can be traded on the exchange of vividness and obviousness" Consolation addiction The consolation tends to be the reward What do Mom and Dad mean to a 4 year-old Beautiful, but also "Mom buys me toys" I really like these toys You love your parents for the gifts they give you Do you love them for who they are? Your parents love to give nice things to you God would provide all your needs But you need to learn to love for real "God says" "I'm real" How to become real? Deprive them. When they call for help, don't answer. Desolation, if open to it, in a good way, leads to more good, less of the remainder that's "pure evil" Too much consolation in church music Have to connect with a lot of people only through feeling nice What is there other than consolation? In the end, you will be consoled, right? 56:11 Goal of spiritual life to be consoled at all times, at some level Even in heaven, final harmony, can't have cutthroat competitors, still games with winners and losers A certain kind of desolation in the midst of heaven Tears of apprehending beauty? Getting lost somewhere? How do you get to a state where you're not addicted to consolation but you could still have it? Like food addiction Consolation as the nice thing that's the aftereffect of the objective thing that's deeper Having some mental hangup resolved (therapy) makes you objectively better off Sometimes subjective feelings are the reality (depression) 1:02:43 Culture of, psychological health is the highest good How much are we willing to sacrifice for that? "Is this a world in which we should feel good about the overall state of things?" "If there was a right way to feel bad, be obsessed, might that be better in the short or medium term?" Why are we so unwilling to take on other peoples' suffering -- in a way that helps them? Alleviating suffering can get in the way of spiritual maturity. "It's worth it to die, to suffer -- so it's worth it to live." The "yoke" is a metaphor for a set of teachings. A discipline the disciple wears. They still have to pull stuff Trusting the Master who says to seek first the Kingdom and "all these things will be added" Learning to love God, become happy to suffer as long as you have him There's stuff more valuable More consoling for there to be something more than consolation "If you want to be happy, stop aiming at happiness" 1:13:24 "Are you expecting to be consoled right away? Or use it for a higher purpose?" "How long can you wait?" Intensely negative things can seem eternal, for a moment In intense pain, a moment of abject nakedness Could turn out to be a transformation to something good Could lead to a permanent mark or disability 1:20:00 Discussion is abstract Different approaches to pain and suffering Hard to tell stories Mary Jane's suffering Couldn't believe in God because she couldn't trust her own feelings Her lack of self-trust through suffering Not cynicism, not a spirit of cynicism More like disability Also The length of a depressed phase Check your own life "What's my account of pain?" 1:27:47 Summary Victorians Promise-keeping Connection between doing the difficult thing and not being addicted to consolation Keeping promise through thick and thin: to live, to be faithful to God, to get through things When life is nicer, we don't need to rely on promises as much You need people to keep promises Not as much margin of error Losing value of honor over shift to modernity One more word: "Nihilism" 1:37:01 Outro and trailer
Here are show contents broken up into timed segments. Links are to "salad" edition of this episode
0:00 Intro 1:15 Heart-shaped cloud iTunes page They did send the email Positioning 5:31 About page Could get earphones "What do we do on the podcast?" Talking about everything But "everyone" talks about everything Need more of a concept Personal "Personal podcast about everything" 9:59 Bio page Personal website Goop tangent Time delay Long lines? 16:25 Back to About page The various things that are or are not in Loving the Cloud, in varying amounts In general, more about humanities topics Intellectuals Cultural stuff Psychology Meta-cognition "life, love, and literature" Theses Not being too specific 26:20 Expansion of "Loving the Cloud" term "Loving" Compassion/empathy/sympathy "Cloud" The podcast itself is a cloud "Clouds all the way up" 35:37 Review of About page Dead air Competitive world anti-dead air Aesthetic value to dead air Reflective silence Filling in with music Soundboard James' favorite podcast (Kings Podcast) "Kids" having fun, using soundboards What other people were like when they were 19 Groups of young people have very specific sets of things they're into Contingent 45:56 Adding graphics Open clipart library Putting stuff up forever (Kings Podcast on Wordpress, LTC on Neocities) IPFS Distributed hosting Show notes Salad version 55:13 Prior episode Worship at James' church Positioning Error-checking 1:01:35 Scheduling